In dealing with the Stoic view on physical pain, the Platonic philoso- pher Taurus (fl. c. ad 145) associates it with the theory of first movements. Pain can affect a subject before any judgement is made; even when it goes on, the Stoics do not assent to the proposition that the pain is something evil. Philosophers can feel pain and show signs of suffering, but they do not form the emotion of distress. 157 If the physical or mental pain becomes intolerable, it is permitted to commit suicide. 158